GAtwood
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Just wanted to point out that Toronto - 2008/01/28 00:18
did beat The Celtics last week. And they do play a good game of basketball, particularly so for the average age of their roster- the one Babcock assembled. 
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coachmccormick
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Re:Just wanted to point out that Toronto - 2008/01/28 00:49
I saw last week that Colangelo gave him credit for signing Calderon, one of my favorite players, and Bosh was a Babcock pick, but how many other players are left from his tenure? Colangelo traded for Nesterovic, Ford, Delfino, Humphries and Dixon; Kapono, Parker and Garbojosa signed as free agents with Colangelo. Bargnani is a Colangelo pick. I can't think of the other players, but that does not leave a lot of players for whom Babcock can take credit. Or, am I mistaken on some of the trades/picks/signings?
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coachmccormick
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Re:Just wanted to point out that Toronto - 2008/01/28 19:16
Not to pick on poor Saer Sene, but here is a blog about Josh Boone that mentions New Jersey's willingness to trade 2 picks (Williams and Boone) to get Hilton Armstrong or Saer Sene.
http://www.netsdaily.com/blog/?p=436
They often say the best trades are the ones you don't make.
Think some teams would like a re-do? If you had drafted based on college productivity, Craig Smith and Paul Milsap would have been near the top of the draft, ahead of college players like Patrick O'Bryant, Hilton Armstrong, Cedric Simmons. But, O'Bryant and Armstrong had "length" and "upside," while Milsap and Smith only had statistics and film which demonstrated their toughness, desire and actual skill sets.
Now, the college success formula is not perfect either, as Shelden Williams was drafted too early in this draft.
But, I think drafts illustrate the overemphasis on finding players who fit the right physical profile rather than the best players. I think NCAA Division I coaches are guilty of the same thing, although, to be honest, I don't think NCAA programs can give the same battery of tests NBA teams give draft prospects. But, if you are a couple inches too short for the ideal size for a position, good luck getting a scholarship. How did everyone on the West Coast miss Jared Dudley (Helix HS, San Diego) and Craig Smith (Fairfax HS, Los Angeles)?
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GAtwood
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Re:Just wanted to point out that Toronto - 2008/01/30 03:47
wow, a lot of that wasn't on Babcock's watch, guess he does suck then.
Seriously though, it's been clear for a long, long, time that GM's frequently make picks based on the potential, over reputation as a player made on the court. I'm probably in error again, but this could explain why nobody outside of Seattle fans, and you B, has heard of Sene.
It does seem that a cookie cutter list of desirable player attributes is a little simplistic.
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coachmccormick
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Re:Just wanted to point out that Toronto - 2008/01/30 05:38
The interesting names this year will be John Reik and Hasheem Thabet. My friend Jonathan Givony has a good article about Reik: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Getting-to-Know-John-Riek/
Since he burst on the scene, people who had yet to see him play proclaimed him "the next big thing" and a surefire lottery pick. Givony, who is usually more positive in his writing than he actually believes, makes him sound like a bust waiting to happen.
I still do not understand why anyone has Thabeet pegged as a lottery pick.
These are two large and long individuals. Unfortunately, there is almost zero fundamental development for most kids in Africa. And, it is very hard to change a 19-year-old. NBA personnel think its great because they have no bad habits and people point to Tim Duncan. But, Duncan was a young 17 when he arrived at Wake Forest and was a national caliber swimmer as a youth, so he had the competitive experience, strength and conditioning, plus he was young and motivated. Just because it worked with Duncan does not mean it works for everyone.
Thabeet is slowly improving. But, I wouldn't use a first round pick on a long shot project, which is what he still is. Is he a better prospect than Cheik Samb of the Pistons who Detroit drafted with the last pick 2 years ago?
I'd gamble on Taj Gibson or Joey Dorsey before I took Reik or Thabeet, but that's just me. I know Dorsey is limited, but I know what he offers too. He's strong, physical, gobbles rebounds and blocks shots. For the right team, why can't he improve his scoring around the basket and have a little Craig Smith or Paul Milsap? You'll be lucky if you get anything out of Thabeet or Reik on their rookie contract. Ask the Cavs how drafting a project big man worked out for them (Dasagna Diop, who did nothing in Cleveland and signed in Dallas and developed after several years into a serviceable player, but still not what you expect from the #6 pick in the draft).
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CoachVinnie
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Re:Just wanted to point out that Toronto - 2008/01/30 07:35
For as much as we can criticize Babcock for his lack of success in Toronto (Rafael Araujo, etc.), it might be worth nothing that he is currently the Wolves Asst GM and has primary responsibility for scouting and the NBA Draft.
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/wolves/basketball_operations.html
He was part of the team responsible for the selection of the one and only, Craig Smith, whom we all hail as the model for work ethic, toughness and performance despite a lack of ideal NBA physical tools.
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